What is Appropriate Behaviour?

There are some people that go to fest to find others to explore sexuality with. As long as this is between two consenting adults this is an appropriate act for those involved. It is important in this case to make your intentions clear from the beginning.

A person may find themselves in handcuffs if they wait until it is too late to ask. For example, asking at the end of a night of drinking would not be the right time, as the person may not remember consenting.

Response #1:

Ask before you start something. Make sure the person(s) are sober enough to understand what they are being asked to do or participate in. Ask again to make sure. Some people not used to drinking and high on hormones may find themselves in over their heads. If you have even the slightest indication that someone may not be fully aware of what they are agreeing to, don't do it.

The morning after the night before is not the time to deal with someone who usually doesn't engage in overt sexual behaviour and who says that as far as they were concerned, they were taken advantage of. This leads to a whole series of unwanted consequences for you and a whole number of other people.

If the person is too out of it to agree coherently, don't even go there, even if you want them with every pore of your being. It is WRONG, the person is not capable, and it is very close to being sexual assault. Your being drunk is not an excuse, because you could still make a choice. It is much better to enter into something in full possession of your faculties - there is something to be said for build up and release between two consenting and randy adults. :-D

If you notice something that could get inappropriate, just give Security a heads up. They don't need to get involved, they need to be aware... In a Fest situation, we are all our brothers/sisters keepers.

...There is nothing worse than waking up next to someone(s) without knowing how you got there, wondering what you did and worrying about test results.

A friend added this section. he/she makes very good points here. We may have things to add on this topic in a short time.
Response #1:

There are some people that go to Fests to just hang out and enjoy themselves with people, cook and eat good food, take classes, buy interesting stuff at the Traders Market, dance or bang drums and get some well-deserved rest and relaxation. Respect their choices too. If you are planning on engaging in extended sessions of bedroom Olympics, make sure the people you enclave with are aware of it before they set up their tents.

If you or your friends have broken past records for the horizontal bop, mention it in passing. They can make a choice as to whether they want to tent right next to you or not. If someone snores or talks in their sleep, let them know as well. This cuts down on resentment if you keep them awake all night with your marathon sessions. Informed choices are the best choices.

If you wish to approach or are approached by somebody who asks if you are interested in getting to know each other better etc. or vice versa feel free to say no if you are not interested. Most people in the Pagan Community Understand NO. If you received a NO accept it as that and move on.

If a person refuses to take NO for an answer this is very inappropriate behaviour. If at an organized event please report the incident immediately. Usually Security will have a talk with them.

Response #1:

If someone says no, respect his or her wishes. Maybe on some other turn of the wheel you may get together.

If you are the recipient of unwanted attention, and if you don't want to take it up with Security right off, tell someone you trust that you are feeling uncomfortable. They may have some good suggestions on what to do, or may know something you don't know, and will help you deal with the situation. This could include going to Security right away.

The Great Rite!!!! can be a beautiful ritual. This is not a ritual for beginners and should be performed after explaining what this consists of. I have been told by friends that practice it in their covens that this should only be done after years of training. 3rd Degree has been suggested. I think you can forgo the years of training if you wish to do the great rite!!! between a loving couple.

On the other hand if an individual offers to train you as a Wiccan but you must sleep with them please run in the opposite direction. There were cases of somebody approaching the Montreal University and College Group Pagan Circles and offering to take students to teach them. He had a Bed in his Alter Room instead of an Alter in his bedroom. To me this person is definitely a predator.

Response #1:

"The Great Rite is ritual that celebrates the Union of the God and the Goddess. It need not involve the sexual act itself, but it does require manifestation of the God and Goddess. As such, it is considered advanced work that requires considerable training and experience in doing ritual.

"If someone tells you it is part of initiation, they do not know what they are talking about. Most people mistake the Great Rite for ritual sex. Ritual sex, or sex magic, is about using sexual energy to raise power. There is nothing wrong with ritual sex between a loving and consenting couple, and can lead to some powerful experiences."

PO: During a chat with the person that sent this she stated that she wanted to make it perfectly clear that there is a Huge Difference between The Great Rite & Ritual Sex and Sexual Magick.

Response #2:

The Great Rite in the Wiccan context is a beautiful and highly complex ritual on a number of levels. Even in a more pan-Pagan context this is not a ritual for beginning practitioners, and should be performed only after both participants understand exactly what it consists of... (See The Farrar's Wiccan Bible for an explanation of the ritual actions).

The Great Rite as done by Wiccans is much more than the physical actions, it is also magical and spiritual and is done under certain set esoteric conditions. The full impact of the Wiccan Great Rite on all levels cannot be taught in books, only by Experience and/or by training at higher levels of initiation. The Wiccan Great Rite is so much more than sex...

The Great Rite in a more mundane context can be done by a loving couple -- in the appropriate “head space” and each recognizing the Divinity within the other, they make love to each other -- truly magical, but in a different way, and just as blessed.

(This pretty much refers to any touching and not just around the fire.)

Dancing around a fire is an interesting thing. Speaking for myself, I trance out and sometimes I do accidentally touch people. I try to avoid this as it breaks my trance, and secondly, if I do not know the person I just touched, they may interpret this the wrong way. Simple rule here. If somebody accidentally touches or brushes you that is fine. I know that some people dirty dance around the fire. I think we are big enough to read people and know if they are interested. If not just say NO in whichever manner you wish.

If the person continuously touches you when you wish not to be tell them. Once again the NO Rule applies. If they persist report them immediately to the organizers.

Response #1:

In my past I attended fires where inappropriate behaviour was taking place. I was Younger then, and didn’t know how to handle it, was I being prudish? After all, other people didn’t have a problem with it– or did they?

This is a hypothetical situation: Let’s say there is a case where a more experienced and sexually liberated person (Person A) may notice that another relatively new person (Person B) is in a dance trance, or is getting off on feeling naked and free and high on the music. Person A may use this state of vulnerability to take unfair advantage (extensive staring/ogling and brushing or rubbing up against someone with various body parts) of Person B. This is wrong, and should not happen. If Person B comes to them and notices this happening it will not only gross them out, but it could ruin their joy for the time being and their appreciation of the Fest experience. It could also bring unwanted consequences on the Fest itself.

Everyone deserves the chance to come to their own sexuality, no matter what type, on their own time.

Note: Before any action is taken, check to make sure your own personal prejudices or buttons are not getting involved. Check with someone else to make sure. :-)

If you see this happening, don't do anything obvious --try not to break the mood for everyone else. Find Security or one of the Fest Organizers and let them know what you think is going on, and what you plan to do next. They will let you know if your approach is ok, based on their understanding of the situation.

You could then insert yourself between Person A and Person B, cast meaningful glances at Person A, mutter a few imprecations (not incantations ;-) and let them know you are on to them. In some cases Person A and Person B may actually be playing a "catch me" game and will let you know you are interfering. In other cases you may well be putting a stop to something that could easily get out of hand. If this doesn't stop it, tell Security or one of the Fest Organizers.

In order to avoid confusion if Person A is male and Person B is a young female, it might be a good idea if the “guardian” stepping into the situation be a female, preferably an older one. It puts a stop to the situation pretty quickly as there is usually no misunderstanding about sexual dynamics. Person A knows they are being watched, and should moderate their behaviour accordingly. No smart person would want to be in the position of having Lynn the Dark, Lee, Pam, Lucy or Elaine "Watching" them in Full Protection Mode throughout the course of a Fest. I wouldn't mind joining them.

If Person A is a female and Person B is a male, this is a bit trickier, especially if it is a young male... Young men, for all their innate hormones, are also susceptible to inappropriate approaches. Mothers should be called in, or the young man's mentor. They can gently interfere without the young man being aware of what is going on.

If the people are the same age, then either sex could work, as long as it is handled with discretion. If Person A can't get a clue, call in Security.

My thoughts, as I said. Others including Security Types and long standing Community Members will have a lot more practical experience with this particular subject than I do.

It is a good rule not to give out another person’s e-mail address or telephone number without their permission. It is a good practice to forward messages to people if people are trying to contact them instead of giving them the info directly. Saying this a person can easily get somebody’s e-mail address through chat groups etc. If you wish to be contacted that fine. If somebody states anything like "I do not want you to contact me any longer." please respect their rights.

We have seen way too many times people getting others information. Sometimes it is even that person that gave them the information then regretted it. Do not know how many times I personally had to tell somebody to stop contacting me. On e-mail this is pretty easy. Block out their e-mail address. By phone it is a different story unless you have caller ID on your phone. If the person persists after you told them to stop then contact the authorities.

This is another topic that was raised by friends. We believe that it can be quite normal to have altars scattered around the house. What we worry about is those that have beds in the altar room and insist people having sex with them to be taught magic. My friends make very good points below.
Response #1:

Due to the high cost of renting - sometimes this has to be done because of a lack of space, or too much ritual clutter but if you get the feeling that this is not the case - think twice. The Lord/Lady High Mucky Muck, Grand Poohbah of the Dwimmormere DwarrowDelf Coveners may actually be just another smary little git, looking for a new way to "get into you", if you know what I mean, the size of his or her temple space not withstanding.

The peace and love vibe of the Pagan movement is a good cloak for people with more sordid motives. :-(
Be aware. Be informed.

Someone who offers to teach Wicca or Magic for sex is a predator on a number of levels, taking advantage on innocence, a craving for knowledge, a true spiritual calling, and last but not least personal boundaries. One of the few ways these self-proclaimed teachers can be handled, without taking direct action, is by letting potential converts know that there is a "right way" to learn what they want. Talk to the student unions, post stuff on student Internet bulletin boards, organize a talk during a student week where spiritual issues are discussed, and make it one of your presentation points.

Monitor the situation. Have a Community representative available in case there are questions.

On the other hand the potential convert(s) may not want the real stuff, maybe they only want the title and the rush the teacher offers by doing something "naughty". They may not want to do the work necessary to get the viable teachings, nor do they want to be involved for the long haul, which is what a true spiritual calling usually ends up being. Don't fault them, it is their choice, just make sure their choices are informed ones.

There are a fair number of public people who know what groups are operating, who is accepting students, who might be able to give informed advice or guidance. There are also a couple of public groups to the community who act as intake systems. Look carefully, ask questions and even do informal reference checks with people in the community who have a balanced outlook on what is going on, or know people who know people. Check it out, ask around!

Another good subject by friends.
Response #1

There are a number of good teachers/teaching groups out there, but it is sometimes hard to find them as they usually only take on students who would be potential group members. In recent years we have been lucky, public teaching forums have been set up so Pagans of all types can learn the basics and learn how to talk to each other across traditions.

Some of the better teachers and occult organizations have gone underground at various times in the past because of the reputation that New Agers, the media, the Grand Poohbah and others have given the community as a whole, or because of ebbs and flows and dynamics in the community. Eventually they come up again. Keep looking and praying. The teacher(s) will turn up when the student is ready, or visa versa. Remember, sometimes you will be with them for a while, sometime you will be with them for a lifetime. It all depends...

The magical path is not happy, fluffy bunny, spell-casting stuff after a while, it is hard work, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. It often becomes a religious practice that takes a person through this life and beyond. Once one sets foot on a magical path a lot of internal pooh comes up that must be dealt with in order to grow and learn. When a student offers themselves to the Gods and ask for help, the Gods answer, often by forcing us to grow by dealing with our own personal issues both at home and in circle/class space.

A good teacher won't usually want to get involved with someone unless that person is truly dedicated to Working, and perhaps has also already done something towards addressing a bit of their personal pooh so it doesn’t have to be addressed in class time. A student/teacher relationship implies responsibilities and obligations on all sides. It is not to be entered upon lightly. Israel Regardie of the Golden Dawn would not work with someone until they had been in therapy for at least a couple of years.

The Gods also have a vested interest in making sure potential students and worshippers find what they need. They have their own schedules, and can lead you on a long, winding way before they feel you are ready for the good stuff. On the other hand, they also protect naive seekers, by causing uncomfortable events to happen that will hopefully teach lessons before irreversible harm takes place. The Gods don't make it easy, but they make it worth it.

Response #2

Well, it's time to discuss using your head in the Pagan community.

It never fails to astound me, how many people feel that because someone claims to be Pagan/Wiccan - that they are immediately worthy of complete trust and are always completely on the up and up.

Actually - I tend to more suspicious around the Pagan community than other segments of society BECAUSE people who tend toward predatory behaviours will be drawn to the community which bases itself on trust - trust, a large percentage of young adults and a goodly number of vulnerable older adults.

Right - here we go....a priest CANNOT turn you into his High Priestess simply because you have performed the Great Rite with him. High Priestesses do not START at the top and then go back to learn the ABC's of it all...A couple of months and a few rituals and a romp or two in the hay does not make you a High Priestess, rather, it makes you a victim of someone no more Pagan than your garden variety office groper or pond scum sexual predator.

Should you run into such a person - a self-proclaimed High Priest - do yourself a favour and ask around before you get in over your head. Use your common sense. Would you jump in the sack with someone who offered you a promotion? Same premise, my friends...exactly the same premise.

Before getting involved with any path and most particularly a path where absolute, total secrecy is involved...take a step back...take another step back, turn around and run like the wind. Use your common sense - make use of the resources in the community - ask around. You want to be careful of people who warn you not to mention their names - because folks are soooo jealous of them. Or some other fool excuse.

Karen (Montreal)